by Mark Kadzielawa

Killing Joke is back with its original line up, and an exciting new record. The four individuals who made this band such a big success in the early 80s had joined forces again. Vocalist Jaz Coleman, and guitar player Kevin "Geordie" Walker who were involved in every incarnation of Killing Joke, were re-joined by bassist Martin "Youth" Glover, and drummer 'Big" Paul Ferguson. A band's often stormy relationship, is also a source of great creativity, and such was the case with the newest album, "Absolute Dissent."

Killing Joke formed in the late 70s, but it was the 80s that the band really exploded, and marked its presence. After releasing their third album, Revelations," Glover quit the band, and was replaced by Paul Raven. Raven proved to be one of the major players in Killing Joke for many years to come. Killing Joke continued to progress, and often reinvented themselves with varied amounts of success. The line up continued to shift with Coleman and Walker as two major players.

In 2007, Paul Raven passed away of a heart failure. The band took this really hard, even though the relationship with Raven, was sometimes distant. Three of the original members of the band met at Raven's funeral, and decided to give it one more go. Eventually, the original line up was reassembled, and the band began to tour, and write new music. "Absolute Dissent" is a the result of this union. An excellent album showing Killing Joke still has a lot to say musically and lyrically.

Spending time with Killing Joke is quite an experience. The band is very outspoken, and even the conversations with individual band members can be very intense and enriching. Paul Raven's spirit is still with them, and you literally feel his presence there. Raven might be gone in a physical sense, but he certainly lives in the hearts of Killing Joke, and rightfully so.

Bassist, Martin "Youth" Glover, talks about the trials and tribulations of life as a Killing Joke member.

From what was reported, the original Killing Joke line up, got back together at Paul Raven's funeral, is that true?
Martin "Youth" Glover: Not really, me and Geordie did a session for a guy in England, and it transpired that we were both on the same session. It was just after Raven's funeral. I didn't go to Raven's funeral, but Paul had met up with Jaz and Geordie there. I said "maybe it's time for us to reconvene," and Geordie said "that's what we were thinking."
How long did it take before you really got together in one room.
A few months after that. We went to rehearse in my studio in Spain, and then we went on tour.
Did you find the spirit of the original outfit still there after all of these years apart?
Well yeah, the personality is still there.
Any personality clashes?
Very much so, that's still there too.
Would you say that enhances the music?
Yes it does. It's like the magnets of the same polls being pushed together.
After being apart from the band, what would you say is so special and unique about this group of musicians playing music?
It's just the characters and personalities creates a very special dynamic. And with us, it's the combination of turbulence, dissidence, distortion, and harmony. So, that defines the sound.
I've read when you were recording the new album, you literally locked yourself in the studio for two weeks. If I was the fly on the wall there what would I see?
We spent almost two weeks in the studio, and it was interesting. If you were the fly on the wall, you'd probably been squashed by now. The crew and engineer had a hard time, we all did have a hard time in there. It was very intense.
So, where did the difficulties come from?
The clashes of personalities and taste, and chemistry, and criteria.
At the end of the day, did that atmosphere add anything to the final recordings?
Yes, it did, for sure.
Since you were away from the band for a while, did you miss all that?
No, I didn't.
So, what possessed you to come back?
Well, I do like it as well. It's a double edged sword you see.
Killing Joke's been around for over 30 years, what changes did you notice during that time in the world around you?
Personally, my views changed a lot. I used to be very arrogant, and very cynical when we started. And I'm certainly not that anymore. I think what we felt we had to say is more relevant now then it was then. And we haven't stopped saying it, in terms of our politics. We're more expressive lyrically as a protest. That's very similar. It's a combination between that and intimate personal expression as well. Again, another dynamic of extremes.
Also, when you started the band the world was split into eastern and western blocs, whereas that's gone now, yet the world is still very problematic, probably even more so than before. Where does Killing Joke fall into that?
Yeah, confusion. We just kind of reflect that in a lot of way, and document it through our music. It's seen as a very old folk tradition to do that. Although, there aren't a lot of band that do it today, but we are one of the few.



Looking at the new album, even the cover is very thought provoking. What is the significance of the album cover, and whose idea was it to design it that way?
Well, I suggested we use Jimmy Cauty. He was an old band mate of mine, when I first left Killing Joke I formed a band called Brilliant, and he was our guitarist. He later went on to form KLF, and is now a very well known graphic artist. He said, we could use an image of his. He presented the band some images, and everyone liked that one, except for Paul. I think the image is a little ambiguous, but essentially is about the final corporate conquest of the sub conscience of soul.
And the religious overtones?
Well, I think it's a reflection of how the religion has sold out in the modern world. Very much in the same way as alchemy phases out and gave way to science. And it's gonna be hard for that to come back I think.
One of the songs that truly stands out on the album is the "European Super State." I really love that intro, it has that cold feel of Tangerine Dream from the 70s. Was that feel used intentionally?
Yes it was. As you can see I'm on the bus, and I got a laptop. I'm making my music every day, especially when we're in different seas because I get a different resonance from sight specific words. "European Super State" started as a long phrase I put together on a laptop, on long bus journey through Finland, with the endless smells of the pine forest. And I had been listening to a lot of European music from Tangerine Dream, Harmonium, Can, Neu!. And also a slightly more commercial version of that type of music like Jean Michel Jarre. And I put this track together, and at the end of "Absolute Dissent" album we just had the last few hours left, so I said 'let's try a few jams over these tracks. I pulled out that song, and my father came up to the session as well, and everybody just clicked with it. Often when I throw off these jams, the band just hates it, but occasionally it get very good.
Did anyone else pick up on the angle of that track?
A few people did, they were suggesting it was more like Vangelis, or Jean Michel Jarre. But I think Tangerine Dream's "Phaedra" is the closest to what I was thinking. I think it's a very distinctive European thing, isn't it? Before we go on stage, I do a DJ set, which I also do on my laptop during the day. And even last night I did my set, and I played Tangerine Dream, Neu!, Harmonium, and so on. And a couple of guys came up to me, and they knew that stuff straight away. It was amazing. When I was in Boston, I was doing some radio broadcast, and I had them play Neu! and Can. That music that was very obscure at one point, is having an impact now here. Which is strange.
When you incorporate such sounds into Killing Joke, is there a direct connection with what the song is conveying lyrically?
NO, I often don't have any lyrics at that point. With Killing Joke, often the meaning is revealed further down the road, you know. We go in with the kind of intention of search, like a pack of wolves, and then later on we work out what it is about. What it is and what is means.
When you initially left the band, what did you miss about it?
You see, the things you hate about touring with the band are also the things you love about it. Sometimes it's really frustrating having three other alpha males battling over trivial things, and other times when you're on your own you miss having those other guys there as a gang, companionship, camaraderie you know.
Another very significant song is "The Raven King," a very timely tribute to the fallen bassist. Paul Raven replaced you in the band, how would you describe his contributions to the Killing Joke sound?
It was me who suggested Raven to join the band when I left. He was a good friend of mine, and a fan of the band. I think, in a lot of ways he is much more technically more accomplished player than I am. And a lot more matching to the band, in many ways, and in the style of playing. For some Killing Joke fans, I think they prefer that. I'm a lot more eclectic, and I see myself more like a counterpoint jazz player. I thought he fit grea but don't forget Geordie is a very accomplished bass player. And he often would do a lot of the bass parts on the records after I left.

The deluxe version of "Absolute Dissent" includes an additional disc of other bands covering your material. What does it mean to you when somebody picks up your song and does something with it?
It's good to be an influence. It's good to know that the songs have their own life and strength outside of the band as musicians. I think it's the testament to the writing of the songs. That's very reassuring.
When you go back, and review the first three albums Killing Joke did nowadays, what's you take on them? I mean those were very influential records, and to a degree still are.
I think they are really good records. For years I was unhappy with the first album, especially with the version of "Wardance" on there. And some of the production of it, I thought it was very muddy. But now I've kind of accepted that, and I think it's good.
Was the re-mastering process able to bring anything out in that album?
Not really. Recently it was voted as one of the 50 most influential debuts. And I thought maybe yeah. I mean for that first album, we were teenagers. We've produced it ourselves, and that's quite an accomplishment. I think the songs and the energy are great. And some of the production is amazing, "Requiem" for example. We didn't put "Change" on it which was one of our biggest songs. And that was just arrogant. I kind of like that as well. By the second album ("What's This For...!" 1981) I thought the production got much better. It's much more psychedelic. We didn't have more of a budget, but we had more confidence and more experience. Also, we had a more expansive sound by then, more space for the drums, and an atmosphere. We definitely got more psychedelic, sort of holographic sound on that album. And then again on the third album ("Revelations," 1982,) we worked with Conny Plank who produced Neu!, and Kraftwerk. But instead of getting it more sparse and ambient, which I had hoped for, we actually went more dance. And it was probably the most odd sounding record of the three. My least favorite. But, there are moments on there that are great. It's just sort of very dissident sounding. The problem with that album, by that point we were being criticized for being dirgy. And I thought the album was dirgy, but the times were a little bit dirgy too. That was also the time that I left the band, and the "Night Time" came out with Paul Raven with "Love Like Blood," and "Eighties." And I thought those records were fantastic. They sounded really well produced as well.
Finally, what's your prognosis for this line up sticking together for a while?
I don't know. Who knows? One day at a time. You know when I came back in the 90s, we did "Pandemonium," and made a radical departure with that album. And that was good, but at the time it was considered kind of radical, but now it's very acceptable. I think in 2003, the direction changed again. It became a lot more electronic, industrial, and now with "Absolute Dissent" we got a few different directions going on. Where are we going next? I'm thinking African, I'm listening to a lot of that music now.
I've had this question in the back of my head for years. What is the definite Killing Joke sound? With so many changes over the years, yet it's still Killing Joke.
You could've given us all pipes, and some basic instruments, and it would still sound like Killing Joke. It don't matter what you give us, it will still sound like Killing Joke. And that's one of the greatest thing about this band, we can't go anywhere, and we can reference all our sources of influences, and it will still sound like us. And this means we have very little limitations, except for the limitations we give ourselves. Fortunately, Jaz and Geordie having done it all the way through can get a bit narrow vision band wits. They say "this is Killing Joke, and this is not." And I say "but we can do this, and we can do that." Let's try it.
So when you stepped away from the band for a while, it gave you a didn't perspective on the music, didn't it?
Yeah, it did. When I'm involved in this band, it's different. When Paul is involved it's different as well. When all four of us are involved it's different too. When me and Paul are not involved, it's just Jaz and Geordie calling the shots. Then it's just that way.

Links:
http://www.golfrecords.co.uk/golfweb/redesign/phd/kj/killingjoke_home.html